Forum:Super Speed/Strength
You know what... and SHOULD have been two relatively quiet pages, instead they cause a lot of arguments. And you know what, I think its time they were retired and we all went back to just saying the vague "their faster then most other characters" and loosing altogether the general term "Super human...". The killing point was being flat out ignored when I put up a C and D on the discussion page to ask folks to stop editing until we get a discussion going on it. Well, edit wars and ignorance now leads me to share absolutely no love for those two pages. If editors can't discuss and we can't come to conclusion and they won't accept rules and notes... Then fine, lets get this page up for deletion. Now, before we reach that stage, I'd like some discussions going on if or if not they stay. If it gets editors off of relatively minor issues and back on the serious wikia edits, then I'm going "for" right now. But if everyone wants it to stay, you got to accept that the pages stated what is and isn't and if the character doesn't belong, then ultimately thats got to go and be discussed. One-Winged Hawk 21:37, October 4, 2010 (UTC) :Newbie editors tend to mess things up but it is up to us to keep things working. First of all at least the term "Super-Human Strength" has been clearly used and stated in the One Piece World so we shouldn't rashly erase that article. Secondly the conditions for Super-Human Strength are more obvious than those of Super-Human Speed and we shouldn't judge those articles as one and the same. For starters I propose that those articles be put under one week protection to prevent further edits from others until we solve this through. MasterDeva 22:24, October 4, 2010 (UTC) :Moving on to the root of the problem, the characters. New characters that are vague and can't be inserted to these pages without discussing first (mainly because their references are not clear enough) must be reviewed carefully and accepted OR rejected accordingly. For example, Garp was suggested to be added as a Super-Human Speed user because he moved past the Straw Hates in front to reach (and hit) Luffy. The anime gives that impression but if the actual scene from the manga is reviewed people will notice that there is not even one sound effect (to convey fast motion), shown when Garp hits Luffy. Details like these can be used to analyze scenes and state clearly why a character can't be added. MasterDeva 22:39, October 4, 2010 (UTC) :Just going to say that the terms are really indeed vague as I've stated before. The problem is really how the terms are viewed by the various editors and viewers. As evidenced by at least the discussions at super human speed, it's really difficult to have a clear cut understanding of the terms that everybody can agree on. The terms could be easier to apply in a western comic like Batman or Superman where the fine line between super and regular are really clear, however in a manga like One Piece, it's really difficult. I mean there's people who can run faster than real life people, and then there's people who run even faster than them. :Based on the arguments, I personally admit that there is a unneeded problem. However, I'll wait and see what others say. Mugiwara Franky 03:18, October 5, 2010 (UTC) ::I just had last night someone arguing over Dalton, then they turned around and used "Bisons run at 35 mph" as a reason for it. The definitions are pretty tight on super speed, but whereas in the strength side its unclear but those are either yea or nay, the speed one its the reverse, the rules are tight and the characters not certain. Every time theres a uncertainty theres a edit war behind it. Its not just once or twice but also every time. ::BTW, has anyone got a link TO the scan of Dalton attacking Wapol? Once upon a time, this wasn't such a big problem. Oh, don't give out the link since I think its advisable we don't spread that around, a website name is all I need to investigate this myself. One-Winged Hawk 07:14, October 5, 2010 (UTC) :::I'm wondering if a "fast but not fast enough" list is needed on the page to explain away all the users not counted as. What does everyone else think of that? One-Winged Hawk 07:30, October 5, 2010 (UTC) :::Maybe that list could be one solution to our problem since it will list some characters on the page that people want them to be added but at the same time won't be labeled as Super-Human Speed users. That was also a solution regarding unconfirmed Devil Fruit users, I believe everyone remembers the issues with Doflamingo's power coming from a Devil Fruit or not. :::On another note, I can't believe Emfrbl that you started a dispute with an editor about Dalton without checking first the manga... That explains though what you wrote in the talk page about Wapol being "slow on reaction" when it has nothing to do with Dalton's manga reference. '-_- Well whatever, if you want to see the raw you can go to rawscans.com and grab it, they don't have an on-line viewer so you'll have to get the whole volume. MasterDeva 15:49, October 5, 2010 (UTC) ::::I had actually checked it out previously because I recalled removing it once before, but time has taken its toll on my memory and I wanted a double check. Dalton's actually a minor issue here overall anyway, since we've got a big edit war problem constnatly occuring thats a major concern anyway. One-Winged Hawk 20:31, October 5, 2010 (UTC) That is where you are wrong, I am backing down until I can attain satisfactory evidence to present. Master Shannara (talk) October 6, 2010 (UTC) :The discussion is really taking a very ugly turn with comments like That is where you are wrong. Master Shannara you keep saying this is this and that is that. However, from what understand, not everything that you say is true can be interpreted by everybody else. Brook, Dalton, and any other very fast person in One Piece is debatable. Looking fast is a thing people can agree on, how a person interprets fast, especially considering the series, is varied. :From what I'm getting so far, this is really a debatable topic. It appears that every time somebody interprets a character as super-human fast, there has to be a debate over it whether it fits certain criteria. The page is really showing more trouble than its worth.Mugiwara Franky 04:29, October 10, 2010 (UTC) You know what, I change my mind, these pages aren't worth keeping. Master Shannara (talk) October 10, 2010 (UTC)